Sylvine here. The full moon is tomorrow night, so I thought I'd get this out of the way now. I feel all of you should know what is being done and why. I really upsets me to have to do this, but I've been left no choice.
Dreamstar of LakeClan, a long-time member of the community, has been exiled permanently from The Warrior Gathering. Why?
Though I have explained this many times, it bears repeating.
Almost 2 years ago, back at the very founding of our eldest Clans in this community, there was a bit of confusion and debate on who was to run the warrior gathering for all the clans. It had been learned from past experience that having several little gatherings scattered about did nothing but create confusion and divide the Clans instead of bring them together. We (myself, Brooke, Dreamstar, and a couple others on the 'council' you could say) eventually agreed to run a poll on who was to lead the FINAL gathering and moonstone for our community. I won the gathering poll (Dreamstar and Brooke tied for the moonstone, but that's another story, which luckily had a happy ending for everyone).
I at once set about making this blog, The Warrior Gathering, and ran it successfully for over a year. Of course, as you all know, I recently handed over admin-ship to Brooke and Dawnstar due to my schedule. However, before that, trouble arose with two particular members.
In December, I discovered that Dreamstar and Delaney had gone off and created their own copy Gathering blog. They did this without my consent or knowledge, belligerently breaking our long-standing agreement.
Don't get me wrong. It would be very different if they had made their without knowing about the agreement or existence of mine. But no, both had participated in the final gathering poll, and had been role-playing here for a year. They would also, of course, be welcome to leave the main gathering to make one specifically for their own Clans. But no, this was another gathering for everyone, essentially a replacement. All of you can imagine how I felt about that. How would any of you feel upon discovering your Clan had been copied in such a way? Not at all happy. Quite upset, in fact.
In addition, I discovered that they had copied material and ideas directly off my Gathering, and hadn't even bothered to provide a link back to me. When confronted, Dreamstar denied this. She said, in a direct quote, that she hadn't even looked at my Gathering in the process of creating hers. So here, I provide you proof.
The Warrior Code from the books. My edited version which I have had posted for a year. The version on their blog.
Also, I was the one who came up with the idea of hosting a poll on The Warrior Gathering for changes and additions to The Warrior Code for our community. Now, she has claimed that right on her blog as well.
I had tried to calmly confront Dreamstar and Delaney several times. This usually started with me attempting conversation and compromise, then getting yelled at, being called a troll, and being told to shut up and leave, and ended the same way with neither side content. Even in the midst of this, I emailed Dreamstar and we finally agreed on a compromise; We would join forces and keep hers as the Secondary Warrior Gathering. She would still be a part of the main blog, but would be able to host her own contests, and could accept members that we couldn't (name doubles, for example). I felt this would be fairly satisfying to both sides. But after the agreement was made, I found she had apparently neglected to consult Delaney on the matter, and when Delaney balked, they broke their agreement a second time.
It was only after all of this that I deleted Dreamstar's Clan off The Warrior Gathering, giving her the option to RP at one or the other. Fair enough, I'd say. But Dreamstar claimed she had the 'right' to RP on my blog, as well as owning her copy. It was my turn to be stubborn though. This sparked another argument. Eventually, after much back-and-forth, they agreed to provide ONE link back to me, only after much prodding. Still frustrated, I left the debate and let them on their way, tired of the fight. Around that time was when I handed the Gathering over to Brooke and Dawnstar.
After I left the main administration, Dreamstar asked Brooke to rejoin, saying that she was leaving her gathering. Brooke and I decided to accept her back on these grounds. I went over to her Clan and told her, politely and plainly, that we were going to accept her back, but we were going to hold her to her word. Suddenly she denied her own words, then banned me from her C-Box. This was the last I could take.
I can no longer play the nice guy. Dreamstar, I tried to talk to you in private as to not bring everyone else into this, but you have left me no choice but to confront you publicly. I even told you I would do so, but you either didn't believe me or didn't care. So, on this day, you Clan will be removed from the sidebar, and you will be forbidden from role-playing on this blog. I had given you the choice of one blog or the other, but you tried to get away with both, and I refuse to be walked all over anymore. You have made me choose for you. So, as of today, you are now officially, formally, permanently exiled from this blog. I am truly sorry it came to this.
Now, if you have any concluding remarks, I won't shut you up. I'm willing to discuss anything you or Delaney has to say. Keep in mind that I will be gone most of tomorrow, but Brooke and I will still answer you before deleting this post tomorrow night before the Gathering. If you don't respond, it's just as well, for things will stand as they are anyway. Farewell, and have a nice life.
Regards,
~~Sylvine
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28 comments:
I'm not sure if I was supposed to see this, but anyway good for you, you stood up for yourself Sylvine. Well done :)
I never denied my own words. I never said I was going to delete del's gathering, NEVER EVER. It's up to Del. As I am not part of that gathering... and my blogger name is DREAM, if you even cared to look.
and I never told you to shutup and leave..
The other gathering isn't my call. It's DEL'S.
1: Yes, you did... You didn't say you'd be deleting it, no. But you said you didn't have time to take care of it or be a part of it. Then, on your C-Box, you denied that you were leaving it, the banned me just to shut me up, even though I was not doing or saying anything rude or offensive. That's the second time this has happened (I'm starting to doubt your claim that I was 'auto-banned' that one time). See the join page here for proof.
2: I NEVER asked you to delete your Gathering. Never. I never said the word 'delete' in this whole post, if you'll see.
3: So, you're not part of either Gathering? In any event, I'm sorry, but the eviction stands.
4: Honestly, you choose THAT of all things to pick at? Our Clan names are Silverstar and Dreamstar, our blogger names are Sylvine and Dream. It seriously doesn't matter. You went by both as far as I was concerned.
5: http://gathering-of-clans.blogspot.com/2010/12/gathering-december-21st.html
6: As far as I've seen, you've been doing most of the posting. You were the one who was responding to me through email. You were the one who agreed to the partnership. You were the one who failed to contact Delaney on the subject.
~~Sylvine
Delaney doesn't want to have anything to do with you. If you haven't guessed, she sort of hates you.
I was doing most of the posting cause Delaney couldn't get on.
And oh well. the warrior gatherings are mostly pointless. cept the one gathering with the lynx fight. that was probably the best one.
I really don't care. and you actually did say on my chatbox that you said I was going to delete it.
and del told you to leave. am I del now?
Yes, I know. Apparently Delaney thinks that running from the issue and cursing me out will solve everything, but it doesn't. I've called her out on this too, but she refuses to keep a hold of her temper to listen, so I guess it's just as well.
And, you did tell me on multiple occasions (ended in an exclamation point, so yelling) to 'go away and stop trolling/flaming!'. I'm not a random hater, I'm a fellow community member who was trying to discuss something calmly with you, so yeah, I found that very offensive.
On your C-Box? Yes, I originally asked if you were going to delete it, I thought that was what you meant when you said 'you didn't have time for it'. Seems reasonable enough. But I never TOLD you to delete it. I said I was going to hold you to your word that you were leaving it. That was hardly worth banning me over, but hey, that's your site just as this is mine.
Well, if you think gatherings and meeting with fellow Clans are pointless, then why did you make on in the first place? Why did you join this one? Why did you argue to stay here? That doesn't make sense. But if you really don't care, fine, I'm happy for you, all the better.
Though I've held my tongue and temper up until this point, I'm just going to say... Dream, you've caused me (and a lot of others) a lot of trouble. What's more, instead of addressing issues, you try to shut me up and go down rabbit trails. I've kept The Warrior Gathering purposefully neutral and have not let my personal feelings of you effect what goes on around here. Thank you for doing this and behaving so belligerently to allow me to exile you without feeling bad about it.
To you and Delaney, I wish you a nice life in your own little world. You two are not allowed anywhere near here again, and we'll leave you alone in turn. I will ask you not to even LOOK at my blog so you won't risk 'accidentally' copying me another time. Thank you, good night, and enjoy your world.
~~Sylvine
Well. That was then. the gatherings have gotten boring now.
And we never copied the gathering. it's in the books. Free to use.
and you can't stop me from looking at blogs...
You broke our agreement TWICE. Long ago, you backed me when someone else copied my Gathering, but then you went off and did the same thing yourself. You took my idea of the poll and my edited Warrior Code. You did all of this without even asking. What if I went and made a LakeClan? Well, it's a Clan name, free to use. What if I, having been a member of your blog, did that to you? Put yourself in my shoes. I guarantee you wouldn't like it. And, if truly you think you'd be indifferent in the same situation, I'll happily take advantage of that and make my own LakeClan. Would you like that?
Oh, and at that mark, warrior names are from the books. Free to use. You've freaked when someone who DIDN'T know you named their cat Dreamkit, yelling at then in all caps to take it off, when they didn't even know you... So don't make it look like I'm over-reacting on this. This is my blog and I don't like ANYTHING of it copied. What's more, I KNOW you looked here to make yours. The Warrior Code is proof. And, the code change poll. And basically the whole thing is, essentially, a copy. You're being extremely hypocritical.
So if you really think this isn't justified, I'd be happy to copy your LakeClan and name a cat Dream-something. I'm not saying this out of malice... I seriously think that confusing your members would show you how I really feel.
And by saying that, essentially you're saying you ARE going to keep looking here and stealing stuff? FYI, I have a Stat Counter and have already marked your IP address. If you are going to be arrogant enough to insist on coming here, I will be able to see every time you visit, and, if I have to, I will take further measures. I don't want to, but right now you are going down rabbit trails just to argue, and I'm don't appreciating it.
So I ask again... How would you feel in my shoes? You have been avoiding this question, but now I want you to answer me honestly.
~~Sylvine
I actually don't yell at people in all caps... I ask them nicely.
And no one could confuse my members. lakeClan has over 320 cats. And I make my own designs. I doubt anyone could confuse a two year old blog and a newbie blog.
LOL Dream, that's a flat-out lie. I've SEEN you yell at people. Many times. Featherstar? Hawkface? Dreamshadow? Remember them? As I recall, you even got your dad to get on Hawkface's case. I have a good memory, and I'm not blind.
You're STILL avoiding my question. This is becoming almost comical, because you're stalling to avoid the point. So I'll ask you again...
Put yourself in my shoes. Would you like it if someone copied you? I highly doubt so, seeing the way you're reacted about much smaller things. Answer me honestly... Would it bother you, or not?
By the way, I am going professional in the graphic design field, and I could easily make up my cats, just as you have done. I'm not saying I'm going to stoop to your level, but you're tempting me to.
~~Sylvine
Here's a little reminder:
http://dreamstaroflakeclan.blogspot.com/2010/04/copy-right.html
Cause Hawkface got her mom involved. and that was, what? a year, TWO years ago. ya. so i don't know what you're talking about -.-
And my level? I've done NOTHING wrong!
And ohh. professional design. Anyone could do that.
I never copied you. Now if you made a LakeClan with a Dreamstar, that WOULD be copying.
And if you even bothered to read that post, look at how Hawkface just yelled at me.
I can post about you too. I can stoop to YOUR level. I'm tempted to. But you know, I'm a nice person. I won't publicly throw you out there. Cause I'm not going to get to your level.
And I don't know what shoes you're in, but obviously not good ones if you think Del and I copied you.
*Shakes head* Seriously? You're STILL avoiding answering my question. Still. Why are you stalling?
Yes, that was last year. But how could you 'not know what I'm talking about'? And I did read that post, I didn't see Hawkface using any exclamation points or caps. I saw her behaving quite civilly. YOU were yelling a lot. This is only one example, too.
And, so if you are such a nice person not to offend anyone, why did you throw Hawkface out there on your blog? You're not making any sense at all. Besides, I did nothing wrong to you. I have never stolen, lied, or copied even the tiniest thing off your blog. I've never been rude to you, yelled at you, or made any demands. Or to anyone, for that fact. So please tell me WHAT I've done wrong that would give you something to post about me? I'm happy to hear, if you'll tell me.
And, by the way, the ONLY reason this became public was because you refused to talk this out civilly in private. I tried many times, and even warned you that I'd have to do this. All I did was inform you that you would be allowed back on this Gathering if you kept your word, but instead of even acknowledging me, you blocked me. I even warned you AGAIN after the fact that I was going to do this, so you could have easily prevented this. So, here we are. Don't try to paint me as the bad guy, I've been extremely patient up til this point.
I will ask you again how you would feel about this. Don't avoid this... Really think about it.
You make your Clan and lead it successfully for almost 2 years. You customize everything so it's very original. There's a lot of RP, and you feel honored to own a good blog. Then you discover that I, one of your members, one who had been RPing on your blog since the very start and had been a supporter, has run off and made my own LakeClan in secret, without even telling you. I use some of your customizations and ideas, and don't even acknowledge that you are the original. You suddenly get a message from a new Gathering member saying, "... Which LakeClan is this? Are you a copy?". How would you feel? What would you do? Would you just leave it, get angry, or try to confront me about it?
~~Sylvine
I wasn't yelling. The caps were supposed to be bold things.
I never blocked you. I didn't want my chatbox being filled with talk that should be PRIVATE. It's called e-mails.
If you were too I would open up another gathering or a StormClan. I can fight back.
And as I SAID. That was a like two years ago. I'm a nice person if you actually knew me.
You did ban me. I tried to comment again, and it said I'd been banned.
OK, so, basically you are saying that copying someone ISN'T wrong? I didn't say I'd make another LakeClan, I asked you how you'd feel if I did the same thing to you as you've done to me.
*sigh* You STILL avoided my question. Please just answer me and we can both get on our way. I hate arguing, and right now we're not getting anywhere. What I'm asking is how you'd feel in the situation I mentioned in my last comment. Please just give me your opinion.
~~Sylvine
I banned you cause as I said before-
I didn't want my chatbox being filled with talk that should be PRIVATE. It's called e-mails.
And no I wouldn't like it. But we never copied the Gathering.
Ah, finally. Here we have it. "No, you wouldn't like that." That is EXACTLY what you did to me. Let me rephrase now...
I was elected at the Gathering leader and ran it successfully for almost 2 years. I customized my Warrior Code and came up with all new ideas for it to be original. There was a lot of RP, and I felt honored to be able to lead it. Then I discover that you, one of my members, one who had been RPing on this blog since the very start and had been a supporter, has run off and made your own gathering in secret, without even telling me. You used some of my customizations and ideas, and don't even acknowledge that I am the original. I DID get a message from a new Gathering member asking, "...Is this still the main Gathering?". How do you think I feel?
You have always talked about how 'special' and 'important' being the ONLY one on Blogger to use the name 'Dream' and 'Mark' are to you, and how much it 'hurt your feelings' to have someone else taking and using them. Well, this just is important to me. This is my 'special names', except this also effects everyone else in the community, not just me. Now do you see where I'm coming from?
Look, I never try to start fights. I hate conflict. I never wanted things to come out like this, but if you were in my situation, would you just back down and let it slide by? I'm guessing not. So now you see my position.
Now are we on the same page? I'm not telling you to do anything, I just wanted this one fact to be clear. Any concluding remarks?
~~Sylvine
You were gone from blogger for months. sorry that we wanted a place to RP :/
I still posted every full moon, I never skipped a single month, so that's sort of invalid... The only thing I didn't get around to was putting new Clans on the list, but they were still welcomed to RP, so that didn't effect you.
So you do see my point though?
There was actually a skipped month. Everyone was wondering where it was. And some were late. so ya.
No, actually, I didn't skip any months. I think it was the November one that came late because I was on vacation and the auto-post messed up, but none other than that, and I did make it up. But did you really think that gave you permission to replace me? You've changed up the story. I thought why you made a copy of it for yourselves was that you didn't like one of my rules or something. :/
But regardless of any of that. Do you, or do you not, see my position? It's very obvious that you keep avoiding that. Are you afraid to admit that you wouldn't like the same thing done to you? I don't understand why you keep stalling.
So... You are avoiding the actual point I've been trying to make this whole time? :/
wait what? I haven't really been on much. haven't had much time... never got to check here.......
Whatever, I can accept that. But even in THAT comment you're STILL stalling. Would you, or wouldn't you, like the same thing done to you with your LakeClan? Do you not see how I feel? Remember how you felt when someone used your names? Are you afraid to admit it? That's sure what it seems like...
I already said something about it....... sheesh
I'm literally face-palming over here... So, you WOULDN'T like the same thing done to you, but you still DON'T see my position? Why do you think you can do to me what you wouldn't want done to yourself? Do you think you're the only one who gets to 'copyright' things that are special to you? I don't understand, so I'm trying to get you to explain your position so we can actually get somewhere with this. :/
I responded to everything you brought up, even though a lot of it was irrelevant to the issue at hand. All I'm asking is that you tell me you'd feel in my situation. You're obviously avoiding that, and it looks as if you're afraid because you don't want to admit that perhaps you wouldn't like to be in my shoes. Please just tell me honestly so we can both be on our way.
So, since you've been around but still haven't responded, that's sort of proof to me that you're running scared. Prove me wrong if you can, but since you appearantly can't... Bye-bye.
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